Where To Next?

In this episode, the Carers NSW Young Carer team hears from two young carers who have a chat with each other about their experiences juggling their caring role with their studies, accessing support at university and transitioning to paid work. This episode also includes a short clip from Paul Nunnari, Director of Inclusive Infrastructure, Placemaking and Experience from the Department of Regional NSW. Paul speaks about the strengths young carers bring to the workplace.

For support as a young carer, check out Carer Gateway or call 1800 422 737 to find out what’s available in your local area. Carer Gateway is a national model of carer support available to any carer across Australia.

The Carers NSW Young Carer Program can also assist young carers living in NSW find the right support for them. Contact the Young Carer team by calling 02 9280 4744 during business hours, or email yc@carersnsw.org.au.

Subscribe to Carers NSW monthly YC eNews to stay up to date with opportunities and updates from the team, and follow the Carers NSW Young Carer Program on Facebook.

For more information about Carers NSW, please visit the Carers NSW website.

You can learn more about the Carers + Employers national accreditation program by calling Carers NSW on 02 9280 4744, or visiting: https://carersandemployers.org.au/ 

Chapters

• 0:11 Definition of a young carer
• 1:02 About this episode
• 1:11 A conversation between Nina and Paris, young carers
• 15:05 More about young carers in the workforce
• 17:08 Sound bite from Paul about young carers’ strengths in the workplace

Transcript

Natalie:

Welcome to episode four of YC Bytes, a Carers NSW podcast focusing on young carers. I'm Natalie, and this is Sarah.

Sarah:

Young carers are children and young people, 25 years and under, who help care for someone living with a disability, mental illness, drug or alcohol dependency, chronic condition, terminal illness, or who is frail.

Natalie:

Carers NSW would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians, countries, and language groups of New South Wales on which we all live, learn, and work. We are recording this podcast on the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. We acknowledge the wisdom of Elders past and present, and pay respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities of today.

In this podcast series, we chat with a range of guests about why it's important to acknowledge and celebrate young carers, explore some of the barriers young carers experience, and start the conversation about accessing supports and services.

Sarah:

Today's episode of YC Bytes is about young carers entering the paid workforce and to start, we have the honour of introducing Nina and Paris.

Nina and Paris are members of the Carers NSW Young Carer Advisory Group, which works with our organisation to ensure that information and services are young carer-inclusive. Instead of us interviewing a young carer today, you will hear these two young carers in conversation about their experiences of balancing caring with work and study.

Nina:

My name is Nina. I'm 23 years old, and currently I work as an audio engineer for film and TV. This is my first year out of uni and the first time I'm in an adult full-time job I would say. I'm a carer for my mum who has early-onset dementia. Outside of being a carer, I'm really into radio. I'm a radio host and I'm also a very avid roller-skater. Today I'm joined by Paris. Paris, do you want to tell us a bit about yourself?

Paris:

Hey, I'm Paris. I'm 21. I'm taking a break from uni. I'm usually studying finance and German. I'm at the moment running my own business as a disability support worker, and I used to be a carer for my nan for a few years. I guess... What do I like doing on the weekend? You probably find me singing every day, if I'm honest. My Spotify minutes went over 104,000 this year. Yeah.

Nina:

Wow. German and finance, what an interesting combination.

Paris:

I know. I was going to say, since when did you roller-skate?

Nina:

Since lockdown. Anyway, did you know what you wanted to do when you finished school?

Paris:

Yes. I had two very clear plans in mind, but I'm doing absolutely none of them now. Yeah. I originally wanted to either become a full-time musician or study finance and go into being an investment banker.

Nina:

Wow.

Paris:

Yeah. Not in the roadmap anymore. How about you though?

Nina:

I've always known that I wanted to do music in some regard. I played a lot of instruments growing up, and I've done radio for a couple of years, and right now I'm really happy in this job of being an audio engineer. Yeah. Were you a carer when you were in high school?

Paris:

I would say I didn't recognise myself as a carer at all until maybe a year after high school. But when I was in school, definitely there was a period of time when my grandfather was really sick and I spent quite a considerable amount of time looking out for him, and that was really scary time.

Nina:

How did that impact your education experience?

Paris:

Immensely. I probably have blocked out a lot of that time, if I'm entirely honest. I just remember having meltdowns all the time, sitting in teachers' offices not knowing what to do, what was going on.

Nina:

Did you go straight onto university-

Paris:

Yes.

Nina:

... after that? 

Paris:

Yes. What is a gap year? I wish I knew what that was. Just- 

Nina:

Same. 

Paris:

Right? 

Nina:

Yeah. How did your university experience compare to your high school experience? Was it somewhat more positive? 

Paris:

Hard to say. I think better and worse in some ways because for the first year of uni I wasn't a carer and so for the first year of uni it was very much running around and making a whole bunch of new friends. I would say it's very mixed. When I did become a carer, it was a very stressful time, mostly because the period of time I was going through, I didn't realise that I was becoming a carer and I didn't realise what I was stepping into.

All I know is that the day before I was existing as an 18-year-old, going to parties, learning what it means to be a fresh adult in first year uni. 

Nina:

Yeah. Having independence and without too many responsibilities. 

Paris:

Yeah. Yeah. 

Nina:

For me, I wasn't a carer in high school. My mum got diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia a couple of years ago, and the symptoms of that started happening when I was like 18. So when I first started uni and they increased more and more throughout my time there. I feel like my university experience, like yours, was positive but also tough and negative at times. 

My university, UTS, was really great and really accommodating. There's specific people on staff who were there to support carers, which was great because I know many other young carers have had very little support from their universities. I was grateful for that. But at the same time, having to withdraw from subjects because the responsibilities are too much, is super, super challenging.

It's hard because, as I said, my mum didn't get diagnosed until like two or three years ago, but she was having symptoms like memory loss and having lots of trouble at work and anxiety, and I was still a carer before she had that diagnosis. It's hard to prove to professors and other people that you have all this responsibility when there's no piece of paper that's proof. Does that make sense?

I didn't know how to write a statutory declaration when I was 18. Also, I feel like for me it was really traumatising to have to tell my story over and over again to all these different people on staff to get special considerations. 

Natalie:

Very interesting to hear Nina speak about needing to provide evidence of her caring role to access support at university. We hear this often. We know this is something that a lot of other young carers have experienced as well. Depending on the application process and depending on I guess the university or the organisation, we know that finding the right type of evidence can be really challenging and not always easily accessible. 

Sarah:

Absolutely. It's interesting to explore how different universities, organisations, and workplaces can assist young carers with this process. We often ask people to think about if there are any internal policies or procedures that they can change or amend to help eliminate young carers needing to provide lots of complicated paperwork or repeatedly share their story over and over. 

Natalie:

These things we know can be really beneficial. These considerations in any workplace or organisational setup can be really, really helpful for a young carer. 

Nina:

Now, Paris, I want to know, has your experience being a carer shaped your career choices? 

Paris:

Absolutely. 

Nina:

Yeah? In what ways? 

Paris:

Because when I left my caring role, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know where I wanted to go. All I knew is that I'd been involved with Carers NSW for a little bit of time and I loved talking with the team and thought, "Hey, what do I want to do with the rest of my time?" I guess I was living in this share house and my roommate was a support worker, and I thought, "Why wasn't this the first thing that came to mind?" 

Nina:

Really? 

Paris:

You'd think that it would be the most straightforward path, but it didn't cross my mind. Not even once. In high school, whilst I was a carer, I was also doing a lot of babysitting. It was a very confusing time because I didn't really know how to balance it. Because I didn't recognise that I was a carer, I just thought it was part of the daily life.

I'd go to school and then go to orchestra, or whatever music thing I was doing that day, and then come home, help out with my grandpa and then make sure he was okay, have dinner, do whatever homework I need to do and then go babysitting. 

Nina:

For me, transitioning into the paid workforce has been quite interesting. For the past two years I've been working freelance. I worked as a podcast producer for a while and I was able to work from home, which really fit in nicely with my caring role because I can edit for a couple of hours and then go make mum some food and then help out if something goes wrong. 

Now that I have transitioned to full-time work away from home, things are a lot harder because I leave the house at 7:30am, I get home at 7:00pm, and then when I get home I have to make dinner and sort a bunch of things out. But my career is also really important for me. It's two conflicting things, if that makes sense. 

My current employer knows that I am a young carer. I just mentioned it in passing when we were on a work lunch and they were... There's two other people in my team and they were both really shocked because they are double my age essentially, and young carers are very invisible. People don't identify with the term young carer because most people don't even know what that means, but they are accommodating. I know if something came up, I could leave work early or I could ask to come in early or stay late if something was happening. I know they're accommodating. 

Sarah:

The theme of young carer identification has continued through most, if not all, episodes in this series. 

Natalie:

Isn't that interesting? I think we know how significant young carer identification is in the bigger piece about young carer awareness. But yeah, it has been highlighted through various conversations in YC Bytes so far. That's very cool. It was really great to hear that Nina's employer and her colleagues are supportive of her caring role, even though they were surprised to hear that she was a young carer. 

Sarah:

For young carers to speak about their caring role at work, they may need to educate or raise awareness first. That could be the first step. 

Natalie:

Absolutely. It's always so wonderful when we hear about young carers having positive experiences like Nina's, but we do also know that there are some not-so-positive experiences out there as well. 

Sarah:

Yeah. If you are a young carer listening, or if you do know of a young carer who would like to have a chat about juggling work with their caring role, please feel free to reach out to us. 

Natalie:

Here are some of the key takeaway messages that Nina and Paris shared with us during their conversation. 

Nina:

Being a carer has definitely strengthened my communication and advocacy skills. I feel like I am really good at communicating my wants and needs. I am great at defending myself. I am good at standing up for myself, I would say. 

Paris:

Yeah. I think that's one of the most important skills to learn and remember because I feel like being a young carer could go either one of two ways. You either struggle to stand up for yourself or you are able to do it really well, or both depending on how your self-esteem is feeling on the day. 

Nina:

Yeah. I used to really struggle with communication and standing up for myself, but going on this journey of being a young carer, now I feel like I'm great at it. What about you? 

Paris:

I would say that when I do have the energy, I'm a lot more confident and able to push for what I need. I would also say in a similar vein, I'm a much better negotiator. I definitely put my caring experience down as being the main reason why I'm able to negotiate for pretty much anything I need. 

Nina:

I feel like it makes us very patient as well. 

Paris:

Yeah. I think also those are all the skills that are necessary to be a good leader as well. I would say that, yeah, I'm a better leader because I have been a carer and I think the best leaders are the ones that can listen to their people. 

Nina:

Well said. I definitely agree with that. 

I feel like as well for young carers joining the workforce, I feel like it's very important to also mark out time for yourself. 

Paris:

Yeah. 

Nina:

When you work and you're a carer, those two things can just consume your whole life, and it's very important that you maintain friendships and have hobbies and stuff that brings you joy too. 

Natalie:

In the Carers NSW Young Carer Program, we know that connecting young carers with good support begins with helping them to identify as a young carer. Having a good support network around you can be really helpful when things aren't quite going to plan. That way you know who you can reach out to when you need the help. Sarah, do you think this is true for the workplace as well? 

Sarah:

Yeah. Absolutely. We've heard from young carers who have felt comfortable sharing that they are a young carer with their manager or their colleagues and have actually found this to be quite useful. We also know that it can be a little bit difficult and hard sometimes to tell your workplace these things as well. I think it's important to talk about and also normalise some of the challenges that young carers might face when they have to juggle paid work with their caring responsibilities. The young carers in the workforce, we've heard that flexible work is really beneficial for them. It's important for them to stay employed and be supported and to be able to earn an income while still providing care. Financial stability is something I guess that we all need. 

Natalie:

Definitely. Nina and Paris both spoke about some of the benefits of flexible employment, including their experiences doing shift work, casual work, gig work, or even freelancing in Nina's case. 

If you are listening to this episode and you are an employer of young people, or of anyone of any age really, you can find some more information about becoming a carer-friendly workplace through our Carers + Employers national accreditation program. At Carers NSW, we work with a range of employers to help them be able to become more carer-friendly. You can learn more about the Carers + Employers program in the show notes of this episode. 

Sarah:

While young carers might experience some additional challenges in the workforce, it's also really important to recognise that caring for someone can help you develop skills and knowledge that can really set you apart in the job search. 

Natalie:

Absolutely. Recently we heard from Paul Nunnari from the Department of Regional NSW about supporting young carers, and he had some really interesting things to say about the strengths that young carers can bring to the workplace. Here is a short snippet from Paul's recent presentation. 

Paul:

From a personal perspective, I always find my interaction with young carers… are just so mature and empathetic, and their level of emotional intelligence is just so zoned in, because I feel like in some instances, they grow up a little bit quicker just by the nature of their caring role. The other side of that coin is that those young people will ultimately become really great employees because they bring with them a wealth of lived experience, a wealth of responsibility, and a recognition of what responsibility means. 

I think that definitely is an asset to an employer as well. I think young carers, again, not only are highly valuable to their respective family unit and broader community, but I think they can be highly, highly valued employees into the future. I think that's something just to highlight as well. 

Natalie:

It was really great to hear Paul's insights into the maturity and resilience of young carers both in his experience working with them and interacting with them as well. 

Sarah:

Yeah, absolutely. It was great to hear Nina and Paris also talk about some of their key strengths as young carers in the workplace and how they feel that these make them better leaders in their respective fields. 

Natalie:

For employers who are looking to be more inclusive of young carers, they can provide them with relevant information and support to help them juggle their caring role with their employment. For help with this, employers can contact us here at Carers NSW. 

Thank you so much for joining us for episode four of YC Bytes. We hope you enjoyed listening to Paris and Nina's conversation and learning a little bit more about young carers and the workforce.  

We are approaching the end of the season. Please tune in next time, which will be episode five of YC Bytes. We are so excited to speak with some more young carers about their experiences and reflect on what we've learned throughout season one of this podcast series.